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Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech

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5 months 4 weeks ago #15766 by Glenn
Glenn created the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
I bet Roger Lee can answer this.

I'm about to take my Tecnam for the annual condition inspection and went to www.rotaxirmt.com to see if the local A&P's training is current because my understanding is the Rotax training certification is only good for 24 months. He was listed last year on the website but not now. So I asked him about it and he showed me his Rotax Heavy Maintenance card that is within the 24 months. He said he didn't have his "Service" card with him.

So why is he not shown on the rotaxirmt.com website? I was under the impression that's where to find someone that's been through the Rotax training. Is there another way to see if someone has current Rotax training?

Roger, I don't see you either.

Glenn

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5 months 4 weeks ago #15767 by Glenn
Glenn replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
OK, sorry Roger, I typed in your name andI can find you that way. My local A&P still doesn't show up if I type in his name.

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5 months 4 weeks ago - 5 months 3 weeks ago #15768 by Eric Nakamoto
Eric Nakamoto replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
Glenn,

As far as I know, you are only listed for two years unless you renew.
Last Edit: 5 months 3 weeks ago by Eric Nakamoto.

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5 months 4 weeks ago #15771 by Roger Lee
Roger Lee replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
Look here on the Rotax Flying and Safety Club website.

rotaxirmt.com/

To keep on this website you must recertify every two years. No other fees, just take the recert. class or the Heavy Maint. class if you are a Heavy Maint. shop.

Roger Lee
LSRM-A & Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Tucson, AZ Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
520-574-1080 Home (TRY HOME FIRST)
520-349-7056 Cell

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5 months 4 weeks ago #15772 by Glenn
Glenn replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
Roger,

Yes, thanks for confirming that but it doesn't really answer the question of can he be current (within 2 years) and not be listed on rotaxirmt.com?

Glenn

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15773 by Roger Lee
Roger Lee replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
I shouldn't happen that way. If they are within their 2 year recert. then they are on there unless they ask to be removed.
You can contact those folks by email and ask for sure. It could also just be a typo or error in their system. That would take an email to.

Roger Lee
LSRM-A & Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Tucson, AZ Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
520-574-1080 Home (TRY HOME FIRST)
520-349-7056 Cell

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15778 by RotaxOwner Admin
RotaxOwner Admin replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
Just to be clear: it's not just "to keep on the website" that requires recurring training. (And BTW, iRMTs who did not train through RFSC will not appear on the RFSC website listing, even though they are certified iRMTs.)

ROTAX has globally formalized their training standards, and all of the ROTAX iRMT certifications require refresher courses every 24 months.

So, no refresher - no certification, simple as that.

"As the standard validity of iRMT ratings expires two years after completion of the relevant course refresher courses are offered (e.g. Refresher course on Maintenance ROTAX® 912 Series / 914 Series)."

(see the Service Letter " Information on the globally standardized iRMT training program for ROTAX® Aircraft Engines ")
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5 months 3 weeks ago #15780 by Eric Nakamoto
Eric Nakamoto replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
The refresher course. I believe it's a shorter course and cost less to renew. Thanks Roger.

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15781 by Glenn
Glenn replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
RotaxOwner Admin,

Thank you for the information and clarification.

I've entered his RFSC number from the last log book entry and immediately to the right of his name in red is EXPIRED. Continuing to the right is shows different RFSC numbers for 9 series service, heavy maint, etc. How do I know what is expired, all or some of the RFSC iRMT? From a ROTAX point of view, is it important for 9 Series Service to be expired but Heavy Maintenance is within the 24 months?

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15782 by RotaxOwner Admin
RotaxOwner Admin replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
If an iRMT has heavy maintenance certification kept fully up-to-date with the refresher course, it doesn't matter about the status of the other courses 'further down the pyramid'.

The Service course is a prerequisite for the 912 Maintenance course, and the 912 Maintenance course is a prerequisite for the 912 Heavy Maintenance course. But once you have a Heavy Maintenance certification, attending the refresher course for Heavy Maintenance DOES include all the refreshers for its prerequisites, as well.

So you can ignore an 'expired' Service rating if the iRMT holds a higher rating in good current standing. In fact (to avoid any confusion) the RFSC website should really have its logic tweaked to hide that lower-rating "expiry" whenever there is a higher course certification in good standing...
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5 months 3 weeks ago #15783 by RotaxOwner Admin
RotaxOwner Admin replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech


( "The iRMT Pyramid")

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15784 by Glenn
Glenn replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
That clears up any confusion. Many thanks.

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15786 by Roger Lee
Roger Lee replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
I used to be in the Arizona map as the only Heavy Maint. IRC in the state. When they made me an instructor they took me off. Now I don't exist. What's with that???? Oh well.

Roger Lee
LSRM-A & Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Tucson, AZ Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
520-574-1080 Home (TRY HOME FIRST)
520-349-7056 Cell

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15787 by Glenn
Glenn replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
Roger,
I think at one time the map automatically showed a flag for you near Tucson. Doesn't anymore. Now when I type in LEE, it brings you up with your certs expiring 3-20-18.
Until I started researching for a particular tech, I had not seen the box above the map provided for a name or RFSC# search. This does make the process to find a
Rotax Tech more difficult.

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5 months 3 weeks ago - 5 months 3 weeks ago #15788 by Skip Reeves
Skip Reeves replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
What I don't understand is as an M1, M2 AME here in Canada I can work on any engine and or airframe as well as an E and S rating with certain endorsements. Other than type ratings for M2 category aircraft I never have to re-certify for anything as long as I maintain my currency in accordance with Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs), can overhaul any lycoming or continental (as long as it will never be used commercially). Can do everything except split the case and it can still be used commercially in future. My rant is all about what makes a Rotax so special that 1 day after a two year expiry date the technician seems to have forgotten everything. Don't get me wrong I love Rotax engines I have a 912 in my RV 12, but this recert thing is ridiculous, especially considering the cost of travel and accommodation. As far as I know there are only two schools in Canada. Thirty years airforce and 20 since retiring (50) years. I think I'm qualified to play with a Rotax. End of rant Cheers Skip Reeves
Last Edit: 5 months 3 weeks ago by Skip Reeves.

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15790 by Glenn
Glenn replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
Skip,
Any A&P's here in the U.S. are legal to work on Rotax engines. The FAA says they are qualified.
As far as I know, the requirement for Rotax recurrent training is only to comply with the Rotax warranty.

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15792 by Skip Reeves
Skip Reeves replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
Hi Glenn,
I figure the same thing. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the the two courses I took and if I was closer to a centre I'd probably take the overhaul course. As far as Transport Canada (our Equiv. to FAA we can work on them too.
I've had some ask me if I was current to work on their Rotax and I tell them I've had the courses then show them my federal license and let them know that's what makes me current. I don't sign off on ultralights or advanced ultralights which I think in the states is now referred to as LSA. I assist owners as they are allowed to sign their own annuals and other maintenance.
I think maybe Rotax could consider no expiry date for licensed aircraft maintenace engineers (AME) and A&Ps US and equivalent ratings in other countries.
Anyway thanks for the note.
Cheers

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15795 by Roger Lee
Roger Lee replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
The reason Rotax wants refresher course is for updates and changes that occur. The reason that the Heavy maint. is required to do all over again is because darn few mechanics with that rating do any real heavy maint. work. Most that people do is at the service and Line maint. levels.

The FAA stance is yes if the mechanic has similar training, has the manuals (this rarely happens), has the proper tools (this is sketchy with many) and has access and previews all new SB's or documentation before any work (another rarity).

FAA says these are are legal , but don't think it's a good idea to perform the work without some instruction since the Rotax is quite different from a Cont. or Lycoming which too often an A&P that has not gone to school treats the Rotax as one of these. I just did a Flight Design that has been treated this way and it cost the owner $4300. A Remos came in recently too that has had only 2 A&P's work on it and di the aircraft and engine no favors. Their cost may be up in the $4K range too.


So even though it may be legal the FAA says along with other experts it may not be your best idea. After all I've seen these years I would want a mechanic with some Rotax experience, at least the service and line maint. class and the manuals on hand. If I ask them what the latest SB's was and they say what's that time to go else where.

Roger Lee
LSRM-A & Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Tucson, AZ Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
520-574-1080 Home (TRY HOME FIRST)
520-349-7056 Cell

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15796 by Skip Reeves
Skip Reeves replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
Roger, Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rotax provides access to all manuals free, whether you own a Rotax engine or not. These are amended periodically as changes occur and bulletins are regularly posted. I don't know how things are done in the US., but if an AME here works on anything, all tools that require it must be certified in accordance with manufactures recommendations. The AME must complete the task in accordance with the manufacture's service and maintenance manuals/instructions and if an area is lacking instruction IAW 43.13. In order to do that he or she must have access to the latest pubs for the equipment they are working on...its the law and could cost one their licence. Are there some here who do what you describe in your first para...indeed. Those are the type of individuals who don't follow the rules and taking a refresher does not change the way they do business.
I have worked on Continental, Lycoming and Franklins as well as Rotax. There is nothing significantly different about a Rotax technically; however, I think it is an easier engine to work on than the others and unlike a lot of die hards who like the 40s and 50s technology I like the Rotax. Unfortunately that is only a very tiny portion of the work I see as there are very few certified aircraft in my neck of the woods with Rotax engines. They are all not much more than simple 4 stroke engines. If you want complex then we start getting into turbines and yes you need the courses in order to be endorsed. I've worked on Pt6 singles and twin packs Allison T-56 P3 Orion, GE-T-58s Sea Kings, Lycoming T55 Chinooks, PT 6 Twin Packs.Bell 212 and 412 and a few straight jet engines and of yes had to have courses on them all, but never had to do refreshers courses.
Having said all that, back to your point about those mechs who don't have tools or pubs. The pubs are available and if they don't have the special tools it's a mute point anyway.
Bottom line for me is I think the two courses I took were great.I took them in Vernon British Columbia. Did I learn anything absolutely. Could I have gotten by without it absolutely as long as I had the tools and manual, just the way I would hope most A&P (US) or AMEs (Canada) would. I don't know what your background is , but I think you are putting all megs in a rather bad light. Just playing devil's advocate here. Have a great day Roger.
Cheers Skip

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5 months 3 weeks ago #15797 by Skip Reeves
Skip Reeves replied the topic: Finding a CERTIFIED Rotax Tech
PS Roger, I'm jealous I love your state. Hope to get back and winter a few months in Mesa again next year

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