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Yesterday on a hot day late morning (90F inside hanger and outside)
went to start 912.
Normally starts right up in less than 2-3 seconds of cranking with my normal startup routine
(not full choke in warm weather, throttle always in full idle position.)
This time no start.
Not even a hint of firing on maybe five or six seconds of cranking.
Five seconds seems like quite a long time :dry: in that situation.
Check all switch positions (mags both one, etc) and all normal.
Tried again.
Can't remember if second attempt was "I'll try MORE choke" or "I'll try LESS choke."
Went back and forth probably between those alternatives on the theory that either it's not getting enough mixture or too rich and starting to flood.
Would rest the starter between approximately 7 second cranking startup attempts.
Nary any indication of firing.
At some point decided "maybe it's flooded" and tried what used to work on flooded auto engines with carbs: Crank with throttle wide open.
At another point decided "maybe it's fuel starved" and turned on the electric aux fuel pump.
All to no avail and I was finally running battery down to point where it was obviously cranking slower, and clear I was going nowhere.

So I pushed the plane back into hanger and put the battery on the slow charger.
Came back 5(?) hours later and it started right up perfectly normally.

My theory is that I had somehow put in a bit to much choke on my first attempt that morning and had indeed flooded it.
And then by jumping back and forth between more choke/less-choke, etc, did myself no good.
But that letting it sit in a warm hanger all day dried it out.

So my question are, finally:
1) Is there some way to tell when starting balks that flooding _is_ the cause?
Go sniff the exhaust for raw gasoline smell?
2) If I believe it IS flooded, what's the best procedure?
Crank with WOT?
FWIW: This aircraft has NO fuel cutoff valve (Yeah, I know... we probably should install one) but I probably could cut off the fuel with a hemostat clamp of the fuel line where it comes into the fuel filter.

Al
  • Re: How to recover from flooded engine on startup?

    by » 10 years ago


    Hi Al,

    Out of curiosity what is your idle rpm when warm?
    My warm idle rpm is 1720 rpm (912ULS). I never just sit and idle there, but I can pull back if need be. Plug gap can play a part here especially if it is too wide. .023-.027 is the norm. I always use full choke on the first start of the day with just a tad of throttle. A small tad. Start up rpm is usually around 2100 rpm. After the first start of the day I just give it a tad of throttle, but no choke and my engine starts immediately every time. If your idle rpm is too low or too high that can affect your start. For instance if it is set too low on a 912ULS like 1550-1600 then it would be more important to use the choke and throttle at start. Too low an idle with no extra throttle even with choke may (this isn't an absolute) be a little lean on fuel to give a good solid start.

    If it floods you could let it sit. I'm not a big fan of beating up the starter or trying a start at WOT to clear the carbs. I can't turn my ignition off. If you turn the key it will try and start and WOT isn't my first choice of rpm starts.

    This non start may also be a slightly low battery. If the cranking rpms are a tad low and you wouldn't be able to hear the difference it wouldn't produce enough energy to fire the plugs. Charge the battery, replace it or jump it to rule this in or out as a cause.

    Do the simple easy test first. rarely are our problems exotic issues.


    Looks like we need to send you a fuel shut off valve for XMas. :)

    Roger Lee
    LSRM-A & Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
    Tucson, AZ Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
    520-349-7056 Cell


    Thank you said by: Al C

  • Re: How to recover from flooded engine on startup?

    by » 10 years ago


    Roger educated me further on this topic on the phone, and I answered his question about what RPM our UL idles at on the phone.
    So this reply on my part is mainly to fill in the blanks for anyone else interested.

    In short, Roger's take on idle RPM setting related to starting is this, if I understood right:
    If fully idled is lowish normally (say under ~1900) engine may start better if rather than having throttle set at lowest setting, crack it a tad and give full choke.

    Other thing that came out of our phone talk per Roger is the possibility that my failure to start that morning had nothing to do with flooding or fuel starving.
    That having a battery just a little bit weak can make it very difficult to start, even when it seems to be cranking over more or less normally.... as prop need to rotate at or above 90 RPM to start.... and it's pretty hard to tell if it's rotating a bit substandard just by listening and eyeballing.

    Al

  • Re: How to recover from flooded engine on startup?

    by » 10 years ago


    When I said low idle setting I meant down around 1400-1550 (912UL is Al's engine). This coupled with no or partial choke and no throttle may make staring more difficult. This engine also has the black older starter verses the new higher torque starter. This may just add on to any starting woes if other things are already marginal.
    If the stating rpm is a tad low which may be only 5-10 rpm off what would normally start the engine you would not be able to hear the difference and it would again make starting difficult or not at all. The best thing here is to rule out any battery voltage issues by charging, replacing or jumping the battery to rule this possible issue in or out of the equation. I have talked to a hundred people that have thought they had an exotic problem when it was a battery that wasn't at full charge and once they remedied this the engine cranked right over.

    Roger Lee
    LSRM-A & Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
    Tucson, AZ Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
    520-349-7056 Cell


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