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Tommy Megremis created the topic: loss of fuel pressure
I recently purchased new Sirius TL3000 high wing which flies beautifully. It has a 912ULS engine with aux pump in parallel and the fuel block is return vented to the gascolator. The airplane has about 50 total hours. On two occasions on cross country trips when flying from high altitude e.g. 7000 to 9000 agl down to lower altitude fairly rapidly(500-1000 fpm) I received low fuel pressure warning from the Dynon Skyview HDX and a separate analog backup gauge which works off a separate sending unit. The aux pump rectified the fuel pressure to normal immediately and the engine never missed a beat even when the low fuel pressure warning was on. Eventually I am able to switch off aux pump and all is well. Otherwise when flight altitudes are fairly constant the mechanical pressure stays at 4.2 psi. This airplane has no carb heat as Rotax says not needed due to carbs on top of motor. Again the engine ran smoothly and spun up normally even with low fuel pressure. Is this some quirk related to the fuel tanks venting problem or the Bing carbs or bubble formation in the mechanical pump? Any ideas?
  • Re: fuel pressure

    by » 7 years ago


    It sounds like a textbook VaporLock situation.

    At 8000ft 100LL will Boil at ~130°F, MoGas at ~110°F. Warm Bath Water.
    While cruising, the fuel flow through the hoses is relatively high as it passes over the Hot engine on the way to the Fuel Pump on the Prop Gear Box giving it very little time to be heated.
    When you pull back the throttle to descend, the Engine is still Hot, but the fuel flow slows to a trickle.
    At a 4gph cruise, the flow rate in AN6 fuel line is ~5 sec/ft, or about 10 seconds to pass the 2ft across the top of the engine.
    At a 0.4gph Idle, the flow rate is 10 times slower. The fuel spends at least a minute and a half in the Hot Zone giving it plenty of time to warm up.

    The Aux Pump, located before the Hot engine, raises the pressure on the Suction line of the mechanical pump, Collapsing the Vapor Bubble and forcing it through the system.
    Once the engine cools a bit and the altitude gets lower, Vapor Locks no longer occurs.

    AUX pumps are not just a luxury upgrade item.
    Without the AUX Pump, the event might have been a lot more exciting.

    Do you have Silicon Fire Sleeve on the Fuel Lines?
    It provides a measure of insulation for the heat.

    It is good operating practice to activate the AUX Pump during descents and whenever below 1000 AGL. Having an Engine quit when you pull off the throttle on final will really get your attention.

    Bill Hertzel
    Rotax 912is
    North Ridgeville, OH, USA
    Clicking the "Thank You" is Always Appreciated by Everyone.


    Thank you said by: Ken Ryan

  • Re: fuel pressure

    by » 7 years ago


    Bill. Thank you so much for your response. It looks like the aux pump will get a little more use from now on. Didnt realize 100LL vaporized so easily at 8000 feet compounded by slow flow over hot engine on descent with throttle cut back.
    Tommy

  • Re: fuel pressure

    by » 7 years ago


    The problem is not the altitude, it is the fuel temperature.
    130° is right at the limit of "Too Hot to Touch". Way too hot for fuel lines!
    At 8000ft the air will be nearly 30° cooler than it is on the ground.
    If it is 90° on the ground, the 60° air at altitude should make keeping the fuel under 130° a very easy job.

    The main issue is passing the fuel lines over the top of a hot engine.
    The lower fuel flow and the reduced cooling air at idle speeds conspire against us.

    The fuel line FROM the Mechanical pump to the Carbs is not an issue because it is under pressure.
    The Fuel line from the Tank going TO the Mechanical Pump is at suction pressures so the pressure altitude the fuel sees is 2-3 thousand feet even higher when the AUX pump is off.
    The ~4 PSI provided by the Aux Pump lowers the Pressure Altitude by over 10,000 ft. The fuel thinks it is underground.

    Running the AUX Pump is a solution but it does not eliminate the cause. The Temperature is the cause.
    We need to keep the fuel cool.
    Rerouting the Fuel Hose is one solution.
    The easiest and most common solution is "Silicon Fire Sleeving" over the Fuel Hoses.
    I asked before, "Are your Fuel Hoses in Fire Sleeving?"

    It is not just for Fire protection after a crash.
    It provides thermal insulation on a day to day basis.
    At ~$5 a foot, it is a cheap solution.

    Bill Hertzel
    Rotax 912is
    North Ridgeville, OH, USA
    Clicking the "Thank You" is Always Appreciated by Everyone.


  • Re: fuel pressure

    by » 7 years ago


    Ill check for fire sleeving of the fuel lines. I cant say specifically but I know there is quite a bit of orange insulation material surrounding much of the existing tubing for radiator and oil lines, etc. It will be a few days before I can get back to the hangar. Thanks for the tip.
    Tommy

  • Re: fuel pressure

    by » 7 years ago


    Able to get a look today. Every inch of exposed fuel line is wrapped in an orange wrapped material I presume is fire sleeving. The wrapping is quite well done. Looks like I'll have to add aux pump to my checklist for descent. The plane factory checklist says Aux pump as required whatever that means. Maybe I found out.

    Tommy

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