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I have a 912ULS in my Van's RV-12. It first flew June 10 and has about 45 hours on it. It has been run exclusively on 93 octane Ethanol auto fuel. The engine runs great. Starts great cold. Starts great hot if I start it right after shutting down. If I let it sit for 10 - 15 minutes or so, though, it starts with difficulty. Usually initially fires pretty much OK but with a LOT of vibration for 20-30 seconds or so. During that 20-30 seconds or so I can keep it going by playing with the throttle then it smooths out and runs normally. The left EGT ran cooler than the right EGT until a minute or so after the engine smoothed out. It seems to be quite consistent - it's happened pretty much the same way every time I've tried to start it after letting it sit for 10-15 minutes or so. I haven't done done that very many times, though, so the sample size is pretty small.

I've tried various throttle positions from the 1/8" suggested in the POH, to full closed to full open and in between, all without success. The 1/8" open is the best - that's the only way I can get to to start at all. I've previously changed the original floats out for the new ones and, actually, have had to replace one of those new ones recently as well. The carbs were balanced recently when I replaced the float.

I took a video of my last try: https://youtu.be/VlJ4isGpqRc. For some reason I can't get YouTube to show the actual video but you can hear the sound. Sounds like my grandfather's old 2 cylinder John Deere :(. It smoothes out at about the 30 second point.

Vapor lock comes to mind but this is a standard, unmodified RV-12 installation and I haven't heard of this problem over in VAF.

There's definitely something going on but I'm not sure how to shoot & correct the problem ...
  • Re: Hot start problem

    by » 9 years ago


    Some of this throttle setting advice is based on what the idle rpm is set at. If it is high or too low this would affect that throttle position. Since 1/8" throttle open works better then next time try 1/4" and the time after that 1/2" and see which one of these does the best. The reason you are having issues is the fuel cooks under the cowl while it sits and may form some vapors in the hose. It then has no cool air circulation like when you are flying and no fuel being recirculated. Don't use the choke on a hot start and just try a few different throttle only positions until you find the best one. My idle rpm is 1700 and I use 1/4" open throttle on a hot start without any issues.

    Roger Lee
    LSRM-A & Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
    Tucson, AZ Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
    520-349-7056 Cell


  • Re: Hot start problem

    by » 9 years ago


    Thanks, Roger. I've actually done that - choke full off and tried a number of different throttle positions and I still get the difficult start. I've always been able to start it but I'm worried about what seems like an excessive amount of vibration during those first 20 or 30 seconds while it's running on what seems like two cylinders or at least not firing on all 4. I'm afraid something is going to be damaged with all the coughing and sputtering it does during that time.

    I think you're familiar with the -12. Is the likely spot for the vapor to be in the lines from clamp block on top to the carbs? Seems like the electric fuel pump would purge the other lines pretty good. Do you think it might help to wrap that line to the carbs with a heat shield sleeve? Might actually make it worse if it traps the heat inside ...

  • Re: Hot start problem

    by » 9 years ago


    Hi Tom,

    All fuel and oil hoses should be in fire sleeve to protect from fire, but there is some help from heat soaking the hoses with the fire sleeve insulation. Any large metal block not insulated will addsorb heat and yes this could be contributing to your problem. It wouldn't hurt to insulate it good and do a test flight.

    Roger Lee
    LSRM-A & Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
    Tucson, AZ Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
    520-349-7056 Cell


    Thank you said by: Cammie Patch

  • Re: Hot start problem

    by » 9 years ago


    Hi Tom,

    As the owner of a DynAero ULC with it's tightly cowled engine I was plagued with your problem. Even worse, invariably the thing would not start at all until everything had cooled down many hours later. What happens is that after shutdown the engine bay heats to such an extent that the fuel literally boils in the carburettor and some of this spills into the intake manifold. Because there is possibly still some fuel left in the carb and the fuel lines now vapour locked, no fresh fuel is available for a normal engine start even with the electric fuel pump on.

    The solution is very simple in my case and I suggest it would follow in your case too. Make sure that there is little or no fuel left in your carburettors and the fuel lines leading to the carburettors before shutting the engine down. In my case maybe 50 meters before taxing up to my hangar I will turn off the fuel cock and by the time I have performed my shutdown checks the engine is about to splutter from lack of fuel, so I shut it down. Now when you go to start again the electric fuel pump charges the carburettors and fuel lines with cool fresh fuel and the engine should start normally every time.

    For those concerned that this procedure could lead to a subsequent take-off with the fuel turned off - I would respond that the secret is to nearly drain the carburettors to be effective, so therefore you would not even be able to taxi to the take-off point without the fuel turned on. Further what happened to your 'Fuel on' during your pre-take off check.

    I hope you can try this technique and report back to the group.

    Cheers,
    Evan

  • Re: Hot start problem

    by » 9 years ago


    Does turning OFF the main fuel valve with the engine running in any way damage the engine-driven fuel pump or fuel lines downstream of the main fuel valve? Overstresses the pump, excessive suction in the fuel lines, etc??

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