fbpx

 

  • Re: 100LL-Avgas versus MoGas-Autogas

    by » 8 months ago


    Paul...and anyone else who wants to read it.  TCP is called out to help the spark plugs in the big aircooled engines.  It however does a lot more.  In overhauls of engines that ran a steady diet of leaded fuels for all their lifetime i can attest to the effectiveness in all areas of the engine.  For example in checking the inside of the camshaft, hollow and nothing going on inside, we see with no TCP paste build-up in that is has to be dug out like silly putty stuck in the rug.  In engines with TCP that is a much lighter slurry that washes out with little fuss.  The same is seen in old gally bores and other areas that most will never see except at overhaul time in a shop.  The overload clutches, old versions before the lead slinger holes were added, lead would build up to the point that the clutch breakaway level was double a new version.  Essentially turning the clutch into a 3 lb brick spinning on the shaft.  Not much use when locked up with lead.  The TCP will keep them relatively clear and the sludge is easy to clean up at inspection times.  The same issue for the sprag clutch on the starting side. Without TCP we had extensive issues with lead and resulting sprag failure.  The use of TCP and the newer parts significantly reduced sprag failure to a point where it is almost a none issue.  

    One very special note on liquid cooled heads.  if you run the coolant nearer the hotter side, up where you would see oil temperatures, then lead formations are not much of a problem.  On the injected engines we run a much leaner burn that really helps with that.  This will greatly reduce lead buildup in the head and valve area itself.  Lead is mostly a problem in the carb version engines in that they tend to run rich especially when people overuse carb heat systems or run them rich.  Rich conditions promote excessive lead buildup and should be avoided.  If you have a carb engine with carb heat, and that is always a good idea, use if sparingly and when necessary.  Some experimental builders have excessive engine bay heat by design.  This is nice in that there is very little chance of carb ice but it creates a very rich mixture that is a problem with leaded fuel contamination. 

     

    I agree with what you have observed with MOGAS.  In general as long as the water is kept in suspension in the fuel corrosion is not a problem.  Most issues are from extremely long storage issues where phase separations occurs from saturation of the fuel with water.  In the old days of certified aircraft we were all told to fuel the aircraft directly after flight.  The metal tanks then had only a small space for condensation to accumulate.  With AVGAS given there is nothing to absorb water from condensation it will drop right away to the bottom of the tank.  Always sump the fuel before flight, especially important with AVGAS .   Todays LSA type aircraft see a lot of variables in fuel tanks.  if you have metal tanks the condensation issues are still there.  The differences are in what fuel you might be using.  MOGAS, even even in the european standards have alcohols that absorb water to some extent.  In the USA ethanol is blended into some 90% of the normal automotive fuel supply.

    European EN228 * For gasoline with max. 3.7 m% of oxygen, allowed oxygenate contents are methanol 3 v%, ethanol 10 v%, iso-propanol 12 v%, iso-butanol 15 v%, tert-butanol 15 v%, ethers with five or more carbon atoms 22 v%, and other oxygenates 15 v%. For gasoline with max. 2.7 m% of oxygen, allowed oxygenate contents are methanol 3 v% and ethanol 5 v%.

    On a side note.  When Rotax was asked to allow the use of ethanol in their aircraft engines it was done after a lot of  consideration.  The test engine in the field was an aircraft in Brazil that ran some 25% ethanol all its operational life in a flight school.  The engine was some 8 years old and was overhauled and the components analyzed by representatives from Rotax at the time.  The results were that it was pretty normal.  The issue however is they could not allow 25% as the emissions from that level of ethanol are very bad for the environment.  Benefits from high levels of ethanol emission wise do not begin until over 30% by volume.  NOx emissions and other emissions were a major concern.  The engine in question, a carburator 912ULS, has no way to allow for changes in the fuel density and ratio of the burn.  The timing is fixed and we can't use a knock sensor or full electronic, auto adjusting, system to compensate for the different fuel mix.  This is also true of the iS, it is a Map system, it is not auto sensing in that it does not change timing on its own.  That all said the safe bet was that 10% would be a safe compromise to allow.  The issue is then up to the OEM, builder, to be sure that the fuel system is suitable.  (fuel tank, lines, filters, etc) to use ethanol.  

    Anyway...i like TCP if you have to use lead.  Decalin has a milder carrier for the TCP and you can take it with you in the aircraft if you travel to treat fuel as you need it.  The Alcor TCP fuel treatment has very specific instructions to not take it in the aircraft with you due to the volatile solvents to carry the TCP in suspension.  (unless it is in your fuel) Just keep that in mind.  

    Cheers


    Thank you said by: RotaxOwner Admin, Paul Hamilton

  • Re: 100LL-Avgas versus MoGas-Autogas

    by » 8 months ago


    Hi Rotax Owner,

    I am troubled by your use of non specific nomenclature like " MOGAS" which according to my search, is a abbreviation of Motor Gasoline.

    My understanding of Motor Gasoline is, that it is a general term, covering the full range of petrol types available in your (US) market place.

    Rotax advise, that the minimum standard for petrol, used in their engines is unleaded 95 Octane, maximum 10% Ethanol blend or aviation petrol (commonly referred to as AVGas, again a generalised term covering at least 2 grades of fuel).

    In my country, Australia, we have adopted ULP (followed by the Octane rating eg 95 or 98) meaning unleaded petrol. This abbreviation came into common use during our nation's transition from leaded  to unleaded fuel. The transition is now complete, there is no automotive fuel containing lead available on the Australian market. In time, I am sure  we will drop ULP, just use the Octane rating (expressed as RON Research Octane Number) as in 91 RON (used in stationary engines, 2/mix, mowers etc,) 95 RON (used in most cars & Rotax 9's), 98 RON (used in higher performance engines & Rotax 9's). We also have ethanol blends, the common one being 10% ethanol, described as "E 10". There is a general market reluctance to use E10, even though it is Government subsidised to a lower cost.


  • Re: 100LL-Avgas versus MoGas-Autogas

    by » 8 months ago


    Hi Sean

    Good points, perhaps I should have qualified the term as often don't realize we are talking to people from all over and not just in the Americas. MOGAS is indeed just auto fuels.  Avgas is aviation fuel.  The terms are common in ASTM discussions and where I got them from.  I sit on the ASTM aviation fuels DO2 committee and terms get used that perhaps are not common in other places. ULP is a new term for me, but from your context I could figure out what you were referring to.  What is very confusing is statements that say Rotax calls for 95 octane.  This has to be explained that is an RON number.  The testing standard has to be referred to.  RON is at 300 RPM on a test octane engine.  The other test is MON, done at 50% higher speed (and a host of other things like temperature control of the inlet air, etc) that more reflects high speed and high load conditions of a fuel.  Avgas is always tested at MON values and the comparison to RON is not a match for octane measurements.  So in the North American market, both Canada and USA, the 2 tests are used as reference and even the formula for the octane number put on the pumps at the filling stations.  (R + M / 2) is the formula.  The resultant value is referred to as AKI, anti-knock index.  Here we need to know that RON typically tests much higher that the exact same fuel tested to an MON standard.  So RON 95 typically tests out to 95,, simple enough.  The same fuel will always test lower on the MON scale, usually 6 to 8 points lower, about 87 MON for example.  Using the formula this fuel is sold here as 91 octane.  

    Ethanol is not part of any Rotax issues and not forbidden by Rotax.  The only caveat here is do not exceed 10% by volume. 

    AVGAS is tested to MON values only in that RON is not relevant to the highly loaded nature of aircraft engine loading.  So when we see AVGAS 100 LL it is at a MON value.  They achieve this by ASTM D910 standards and that is why it has a lot of toluene in the mix. (paint thinner to some people) AVGAS is controlled in its RVP and has no seasonal blends or ethanol.  Auto fuels are another standard D4814, I attached the abstract of that for a reference. Also attached another portion of a paper on fuels where they freely use Avgas and Mogas.  

    here is a link to a quick explaination of RON and MON: https://www.petro-online.com/news/analytical-instrumentation/11/breaking-news/what-does-ron-and-mon-mean/55661

    I don't know if that helps, just my explanation. 

    Cheers

    37348_2_ASTM example .jpg (You do not have access to download this file.)
    37348_2_ASTM D4814-21c preamble.jpg (You do not have access to download this file.)

    Thank you said by: Sean Griffin, Paul Hamilton

  • Re: 100LL-Avgas versus MoGas-Autogas

    by » 8 months ago


    Hi again Sean

    So sorry, I made a typo in my comments from a short while ago.  Research Octane Number is done on the test engine at 600 RPM, I had said 300 and that is an error. The Motor Octane Number, MON, test is done at 900 RPM.  This is one of the major differences in the knock testing of a fuel.  Of course there are other components to the test but that is the biggest change.  

    Cheers


    Thank you said by: Paul Hamilton

  • Re: 100LL-Avgas versus MoGas-Autogas

    by » 8 months ago


    Thanks RW,

    My apologies for being so "picky"

    The link you gave is a very nicely worded/crafted (PIN) explanation of RON & MON.

    Also of interest, to me, was the statement that "In the UK, the standard RON rating is 95, with all cars built to run efficiently on this fuel grade" In Australia 95 RON is becoming increasingly hard to find, with many fuel service stations consolidating their offering to just 91 & 98 RON. I imagine this is a marketing & efficiency decision. Marketing, in that 98 is more expensive = higher consumer cost/+ profit and efficiency, carrying less inventory = lower retail costs /+profit.

     


You do not have permissions to reply to this topic.