912is Included Items

Jeff Blakeslee wrote:

RW,

I would think that because the engine was purchased with an aircraft kit by a private party, at that point the engine became eligible to be resold privately without penalty. It sounds like the company the aircraft was purchased from is just trying to help the guy sell his parts since he can’t finish the aircraft.  

I was told the owner of the plane was building one of the companies kits but purchased the engine from another individual. He was called a friend who they are helping to sell the engine that was installed on the kit but never run and now due to medical reasons will no longer be able to fly. Dealing with a known company made the process feel safer for me and I hope that’s how it works out as the engine is already on it’s way to me.

Hi all

My comments about the sale by an OEM to another person, without a kit or aircraft to match it, are Rotax policy to prevent grey market engine sales by OEM.  A grey market engine is when a special low priced engine, intended for use in an OEM aircraft, is sold outside their agreement with the distributor.  These engines prevent support systems from generating needed sales and deprive the support independent Service Centres and independent Repair Centres any revenue from those sales. 

While there may be many legitimate arguments you can put forward I looked at the first post and can only comment on the information I had.  

Please consider that sale of parts and replacement engines is the only way many service providers can exist.  There has always been a grey market of people who try to bypass the system.  The internet has made this extremely easy but also is responsible for a large drop in support providers over the past few decades.  The same people who use such practices normally don't care if you can get service or support at the time of a purchase.  I can assure you they line up just like you however when they need compliance to an SB or have a failure.  I can't tell if the engine sale in this case is just goodwill from the OEM as stated or if it is indeed something else.  Just consider those things when you are buying an engine from a supplier who is not listed as part of the support structure.  In the case of this 912iS perhaps supply  serial number, be sure it is not 10 years old already?  Even if the engine is only 2 years old there are many checks that need to be done to insure it is ready to use.  There are a number of things you should do when buying from outside the network.

Cheers

Rotax Wizard wrote:

Hi all

My comments about the sale by an OEM to another person, without a kit or aircraft to match it, are Rotax policy to prevent grey market engine sales by OEM.  A grey market engine is when a special low priced engine, intended for use in an OEM aircraft, is sold outside their agreement with the distributor.  These engines prevent support systems from generating needed sales and deprive the support independent Service Centres and independent Repair Centres any revenue from those sales. 

While there may be many legitimate arguments you can put forward I looked at the first post and can only comment on the information I had.  

Please consider that sale of parts and replacement engines is the only way many service providers can exist.  There has always been a grey market of people who try to bypass the system.  The internet has made this extremely easy but also is responsible for a large drop in support providers over the past few decades.  The same people who use such practices normally don't care if you can get service or support at the time of a purchase.  I can assure you they line up just like you however when they need compliance to an SB or have a failure.  I can't tell if the engine sale in this case is just goodwill from the OEM as stated or if it is indeed something else.  Just consider those things when you are buying an engine from a supplier who is not listed as part of the support structure.  In the case of this 912iS perhaps supply  serial number, be sure it is not 10 years old already?  Even if the engine is only 2 years old there are many checks that need to be done to insure it is ready to use.  There are a number of things you should do when buying from outside the network.

Cheers

Rotax Wizard I've go a few questions so I can better understand what you're saying so I can ask questions to clarify things with the company I'm dealing with. So if a company sells a plane or kit to a private individual with the engine on it is that person bound to not sell the engine off of the plane forever? Does Rotax not support the sale of Rotax engines by private individuals or anyone other than independent service centers? Are grey market engines or people who may happen to own one denied service and or support by Rotax or independent service centers/technicians? Would people who are given engines at deeply discounted rates such as Youtube influencers and alike who trade advertising for the engines at a lower cost held to these same standards? I will get more info from the seller today though I've already purchased the engine under information that didn't include the engine being a grey market engine so I'm assuming they could just tell me too bad.

Hi Jared

Don't read more into my comment that is there.  A company who buys at a special price gets it for a reason, to make a product to sell.  Selling the parts off to make a profit and not be responsible for the support is just plain wrong in my opinion.  That is the very essence of grey market, quick sale and run away with no support for the buyer, you drop that on to someone else.  Again my opinion.  

The OEM who buys an engine for his production gets preferential pricing to make that kit or aircraft.  If you buy that kit and decide to then sell the engine to another person fine, at least that is a arms length deal in the eyes of the agreements in place for the OEM.  You as a seller who purchased the kit can do that if you want but not the OEM who signed on to make aircraft or kits and not be a parts seller.  I know in the USA OEM companies must agree to those terms.  

I can't speak to what influencers you may referring to as I am not a party to any cases so have no knowledge.  My comment is relative to engine sales that are not supported by technical backing or product support.  It becomes a bit like buying from Barnstormers, buyer beware.  Again my opinion. Since you don't wish to say who are buying from or the engine serial I won't comment on this any longer as it serves no real purpose.  

I will say that Rotax is one of the very few international companies who do support the OEMs with warranty as long as the OEM sells the whole aircraft.  Try that with a camera from Hong Kong and you get zero warranty based on the region you purchased in.  Buy a car in the USA and import it to Colombia and you get zero warranty.  ....You can buy a Rotax powered aircraft from the UK and get warranty in the USA as long a the complete kit or aircraft came as one unit.  Just saying. 

Cheers

Rotax Wizard wrote:

Hi Jared

Don't read more into my comment that is there.  A company who buys at a special price gets it for a reason, to make a product to sell.  Selling the parts off to make a profit and not be responsible for the support is just plain wrong in my opinion.  That is the very essence of grey market, quick sale and run away with no support for the buyer, you drop that on to someone else.  Again my opinion.  

The OEM who buys an engine for his production gets preferential pricing to make that kit or aircraft.  If you buy that kit and decide to then sell the engine to another person fine, at least that is a arms length deal in the eyes of the agreements in place for the OEM.  You as a seller who purchased the kit can do that if you want but not the OEM who signed on to make aircraft or kits and not be a parts seller.  I know in the USA OEM companies must agree to those terms.  

I can't speak to what influencers you may referring to as I am not a party to any cases so have no knowledge.  My comment is relative to engine sales that are not supported by technical backing or product support.  It becomes a bit like buying from Barnstormers, buyer beware.  Again my opinion. Since you don't wish to say who are buying from or the engine serial I won't comment on this any longer as it serves no real purpose.  

I will say that Rotax is one of the very few international companies who do support the OEMs with warranty as long as the OEM sells the whole aircraft.  Try that with a camera from Hong Kong and you get zero warranty based on the region you purchased in.  Buy a car in the USA and import it to Colombia and you get zero warranty.  ....You can buy a Rotax powered aircraft from the UK and get warranty in the USA as long a the complete kit or aircraft came as one unit.  Just saying. 

Cheers

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Once I learn more I will update if it's relevant. I definitely understand what you are saying and as of now the information I was given was that the engine was owned by a private individual but I guess I'll find out.